Spiritwalker Site Forum - NO RESPECT

NO RESPECT

romi - 3-21-2003 at 11:29 AM

WHAT IS HAPPENING IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW IS A SHAME. BUSH AND BLAIR HAS NO RESPECT FOR THE WORLD AND SPECIALLY FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE. I DON'T HAVE WORDS TO DESCRIBE THE ANGER THAT I'M FEELING ABOUT THESE MOTHER FUCKERS (THAT DON'T HAVE ANOTHER NAME). WHY ARE THEY DESTROYING A COUNTRY JUST TO CATCH A MAN THAT PROBABLY IS NOW FAR AWAY (LIKE WHAT HAPPEN WITH OSAMA). BOMBS IN EVERY SECONDS. WHY??? DO THEY REALLY NEED THIS SHIT? IS THIS FUCKING HARD BOMBING NECESSARY? U.S. JUST WANT TO SHOW TO THE WORLD THAT HAVE MILITARY POWER. FUCK THEM.
THIS IS VERY SAD. BUSH AND BLAIR ARE WORST THEN ANIMALS. THEY DON'T DESERVE RESPECT. THIS FUCKERS ARE KILLING LOTS OF INNOCENTS. IS EVERYTHING BURNING. THE ONLY THING THEY DID WAS KILLING INNOCENTS. THESE FUCKERS KILLED PROBABLY MY FRIENDS JUST BECAUSE ONE DAY THEY WOKE UP AND DECIDE TO DO IT. AND THEY SAY "GOD SAVE AMERICA".... WELL AT THIS MOMENT (SORRY IF I'M GONNA HURT YOUR FEELINGS) I SAY: MAY GOD FUCK AMERICA. AND BUSH WILL BE SORRY ABOUT WHAT HE IS DOING TO IRAQ. SO MUCH SHIT, SO MUCH MURDERS, SO MUCH DESTROY, FOR WHAT??? TO LET THEM FREE FROM SADDAM? PEOPLE ARE FREE NOW, BECAUSE PROBABLY THEY ARE DEAD. IF BUSH ONLY TRY TO USE THE MONEY THAT SPENT IN THIS ATTACK HELPING THE CHILDRENS IN THE WORLD OR DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.... BUT NO, THIS MOTHER FUCKER ONLY WANTS TO DESTROY.
I'M SORRY ABOUT MY WORDS....
I JUST WANT TO CRY....

iana - 3-21-2003 at 04:54 PM

You know Romi,I try to stay out of political shit because we will never agree,I take great offense when you talk about America,but I understand your anger,look at our streets,all the protesters,I have friends in the military there that might not come home,what you really need to see is that Saddam is the real mother fucker,a threat to America and the world,your country included,I hope the future proves your anger wrong when you see a liberated Iraq,thanks to Bush and Blair,Saddam needs to die,end of story,he might already be dead,I hope so,innocent people on both sides are dying and it's sad but if you ask me I think Bush will be forever known for freeing Iraq and the world from a true madman,please try to steer your anger to the coward terrorists such as Saddam and Bin Laden,peace to you in this wartime.

iana - 3-21-2003 at 05:19 PM

UPDATE:- Just what I was trying to say, I just saw on the news,Iraqi citizens tearing down those ugly posters of Hussein,and an American Soldier laughing and shaking hands with an Iraqi man,thats what I want to see and in the end I hope thats all we will see.

taokow - 3-21-2003 at 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
UPDATE:- Just what I was trying to say, I just saw on the news,Iraqi citizens tearing down those ugly posters of Hussein,and an American Soldier laughing and shaking hands with an Iraqi man,thats what I want to see and in the end I hope thats all we will see.

I saw this... and was apalled and ashamed.... I was very uncomfortable with this kind of obvious propaganda. I thought, how would I react if batallions of heavily armed Chinese were "liberating" me from my evil President? I would follow the lead of the chinese soldier and stay alive or not be taken prisoner. I would be a monkey-on-a-stick just as these unfortunate Iraqis. I think if you put yourself in their shoes and look honestly at your instincts of self-preservation you too would be blowing around in the winds of war. I hope we don't see many more of these awkward kow-towing moments by the defeated Iraqi people. I think it is demeaning to a culture that has a strong cultural sense of honor. Fact is, militarily they don't have a chance. I support my country but don't necessarily support this war, on principle. Most of these things you will see on American news are photo-ops of sorts, I felt there was a particularly over acted and rather bizarre moment when I saw the footage of the American Marine slicing up the poster of Saddam Hussein. This seemed to be a wood framed oil painting curiously hanging outdoors on the side of a building. When the Marine was only able to strip away the lower half of Saddam's face, an overzealous and impatient Iraqi jumps up and starts pounding Saddam's forehead with his Sandal.
Scared ingratiation it seems.

iana - 3-21-2003 at 07:00 PM

I don't believe the Iraqi's are defeated,I don't believe this war is about defeating the Iraqi's but quite the opposite in freeing them from the grips and confines of a fucking lunatic who does not give a flying fuck about "his "people.
I am appallled and ashamed that we have our men over there and not supporting them,protest all you want ,it is not going to do you or anyone any good,They have my support,they are there wether they want to be or not and i'm behind them 100% don't like my opinion,don't like me? i'll get over it but we are at war and fuck us all we have to deal with it!
GOD BLESS AMERICA!

iana - 3-21-2003 at 07:07 PM

Quote:

the Marine was only able to strip away the lower half of Saddam's face, an overzealous and impatient Iraqi jumps up and starts pounding Saddam's forehead with his Sandal.
Scared ingratiation it seems.

See ,now I see that as years and years of living in fear and hatred and probably wanting to do that every fucking time he saw that picture but would have got killed a few days earlier-Freedom for Iraq!

iana - 3-21-2003 at 09:31 PM

UPDATE 2- Iraqi people running up to any and every American to hug them and thank them-propaganda-I don't think so!

cool

the wizard - 3-21-2003 at 09:42 PM

very cool, that is so awesome! i had tried to post on this thread but i ended up making a new topic:puzzled: w.t.f

anyway im back here now gentlemen(al haig, president reagan assasination attempt)

see romi? we arent the war mongers ya think we are!!!! our people have a heart as do the decent people of iraq.:angel: have one too!!!! bleeding heart liberals

[Edited on 3-22-2003 by the wizard]

[Edited on 3-22-2003 by the wizard]

taokow - 3-22-2003 at 10:03 AM

Iana, I think you're a Media Ho, and CNN is your pimp. They bitch slap you and you give 'em the money. Don't these happy Iraqi's welcoming the just liberators images seem a little counter intuitive? Why do Americans always assume that people are going to be glad to see us? Homogenize and Marginalize; Consume and support our consumption.

taokow - 3-22-2003 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
UPDATE 2- Iraqi people running up to any and every American to hug them and thank them-propaganda-I don't think so!

Wait till we get to Baghdad... I don't think the welcome will be so warm!

iana - 3-22-2003 at 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by taokow
Iana, I think you're a Media Ho, and CNN is your pimp. They bitch slap you and you give 'em the money. Don't these happy Iraqi's welcoming the just liberators images seem a little counter intuitive? Why do Americans always assume that people are going to be glad to see us? Homogenize and Marginalize; Consume and support our consumption.

And I think you are a jackass but whats the point? Yeah ,I watch the news,tell me you don't ! I do not believe everything I see or hear I saw enough of that shit as a kid growing up with Viet Nam on the telly every fricken day and in the future if you are going to call me a "ho" make Ms. Ho" ,I'm older then you show some respect, furthermore I dont "ASSUME" anything about this war,it's all ugly and it's here to stay until "WE" say it's over,live with it! deal with it!

iana - 3-22-2003 at 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by taokow
Homogenize and Marginalize; Consume and support our consumption.

I know I can be a little "slow" at times but what the hell does that mean?
Does anybody else understand this?
Is it just me?

doggiestar - 3-22-2003 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana

Quote:

Originally posted by taokow
Homogenize and Marginalize; Consume and support our consumption.

I know I can be a little "slow" at times but what the hell does that mean?
Does anybody else understand this?
Is it just me?

i have a good idea...but i'm not going to partake of this futile conversation...

so here's my take on the meaning...

Homogenize...this is what we do to cows milk...we clean it and we take the fat out...thus Half Fat Milk etc...

Marginalize...this is, to me, where you reduce the amount of profit you intend to make on an item through sale...marking down an item on sale...it can also mean other things...but we seem to be talking in a consumser/retailer situation

Consume and suport our consumption...hundreds of lil insites on this part of the statement...but again...it's the consumer...so...you and i require goods...food...fuel...etc...to live...it's one well known fact that America is the consumer centre of the world...i am because i shop etc...plastic cards...credit...you name it...America and the rest of the western developed world use this to keep our nations afloat...the consumer and capitalisim are in a tighter relationship than most people think...

the main point being made is that war = profit

with out profit there would be no point in war...the cost in human suffering...lives lost...blood...it's a very high price we pay...without the cold war which ended with the dropping of the Berlin wall...you and i could not use the internet...it wouldn't exist...how many people died for us to live?...

equally...in Iraq...what is the main thought of a conflict?...to profit...what can we profit from that Iraq has?...

correct me if i'm wrong Taokow...

iana - 3-22-2003 at 04:03 PM

Thank you Doggiestar and you are correct again when you say "Futile ,futile indeed but what can you do.I just got to the point of hearing the same bullshit about America and Americans and I do get offended.

taokow - 3-23-2003 at 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by doggiestar

Quote:

Originally posted by iana

Quote:

Originally posted by taokow
Homogenize and Marginalize; Consume and support our consumption.

I know I can be a little "slow" at times but what the hell does that mean?
Does anybody else understand this?
Is it just me?

First, I'd like to apologize to you Iana, I was really only speaking metaphorically and didn't mean to imply that you are a "Ho" but rather a proverbial "Media Ho". I was only trying to be slightly ironic and witty and convey what I thought was a funny image. I am sorry and didn't intend to offend.

OK-

"Homogenize, Marginalize; Consume to support our consumption..."

This statement just seems to sum up our legacy of occupation over militarily dominated and defeated "enemies". I point to the Indigenous peoples of the American territory as an early example of this doctrine. Germany and Japan are more recent examples... though, we as Americans have an inbuilt denial of recognizing ourselves as conquerors with definite social, economic, political, and ideological objectives. We instead prefer the benevolent liberator image. We have one great export ...."The American Way"

Homogenize, or to make Homogeneous
Pronunciation: -'jE-nE-&s, -ny&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin homogeneus, homogenus, from Greek homogenEs, from hom- + genos kind -- more at KIN
Date: 1641
1 : of the same or a similar kind or nature
2 : of uniform structure or composition throughout
3 : having the property that if each variable is replaced by a constant times that variable the constant can be factored out : having each term of the same degree if all variables are considered

We replace your ideas with ours, then we

Marginalize or make you

marginal
Pronunciation: 'märj-n&l, 'mär-j&-n&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin marginalis, from Latin margin-, margo
Date: 1573
1 : written or printed in the margin of a page or sheet
2 a : of, relating to, or situated at a margin or border b : not of central importance c (1) : occupying the borderland of a relatively stable territorial or cultural area (2) : characterized by the incorporation of habits and values from two divergent cultures and by incomplete assimilation in either (3) : excluded from or existing outside the mainstream of society, a group, or a school of thought
3 : located at the fringe of consciousness
4 a : close to the lower limit of qualification, acceptability, or function : barely exceeding the minimum requirements b (1) : having a character or capacity fitted to yield a supply of goods which when marketed at existing price levels will barely cover the cost of production (2) : of, relating to, or derived from goods produced and marketed with such result
5 : relating to or being a function of a random variable that is obtained from a function of several random variables by integrating or summing over all possible values of the other variables

You are Muslims and have funny accents and live differently than us.....

Consume to support our consumption....

self explanatory (just basic American
Capitalism 101 or "How to Build a casino on your Reservation.")

and War (the process) continues.

These are some other definitions that make me particularly suspicious of any American mass media Cartel reports/images:

Information Operations (IO) - Actions taken to affect adversary information and information systems while defending one's own information and information systems.

Offensive Information Operations - Involve the integrated use of assigned and supporting capabilities and activities, mutually supported by intelligence, to affect adversary decision makers to achieve or promote specific objectives

Defensive Information Operations - Integrate and coordinate policies and procedures, operations, personnel, and technology to protect and defend information systems. Defensive IO ensure timely, accurate, and relevant information access while denying adversaries the opportunity to exploit friendly information systems for their own purpose.

Information Assurance (IA) - Information Operations that protect and defend information and information systems by ensuring their availability, integrity, authenticity, confidentiality, and non-repudiation. This includes providing for restoration of information systems by incorporating protection, detection, and reaction capabilities.

Information Warfare (IW) - Information Operations conducted during time of crises or conflict to achieve or promote specific objectives over a specific adversary or adversaries.

Information - The meaning that a human assigns to data by means of the known conventions used in their representation. It is facts, data, or instructions in any medium or form.

Data - A representation of facts, concepts, or instructions in a formalized manner suitable for communications, interpretations, or processing by humans or by automatic means. It is any representation such as characters or analog quantities to which meaning is, or might be assigned. (Joint Pub 1-02)

I believe as Americans we are basically ignorant of the processes that occur during wartime.
So Iana, Doggiestar Everyone!! I suggest you take some instruction from the source....

This is the Air Force IO Basics Tutorial for enlisted personnel...it is the Psyops (Psychological Operations) Lesson.
I suggest that everyone sees this, it is a surreal experience (You need Flash for this tutorial....be sure to click on the main menu to see all of the lessons)

http://www.iwar.org.uk/iwar/resources/iwac-cd/psyop/intro.htm

I just hope this shows that wartime American Propoganda does exist and is definitely implemented. This discussion isn't futile. I'm not trying to change your mind about the war, I'm just trying to highlight the hypocrisy of war.

I would love to hear your opinions on this Psyops tutorial...

taokow - 3-23-2003 at 01:12 AM

This is the actual start of the tutorial...

Air Force Information Operations Basics Course

taokow - 3-23-2003 at 01:20 AM

Futility is.... taking the AFIOBC (Air Force IO Basics Course) and realizing you are consuming the Military's Propaganda about Propaganda. It kind of made me a little dizzy. It's a weird Vertigo situation.:puzzled:

taokow - 3-23-2003 at 01:54 AM

OK, this part of the tutorial is perhaps the most relevant to this thread. It's about Public Affairs-

http://www.iwar.org.uk/iwar/resources/iwac-cd/pao/intro.htm

good grief!

the wizard - 3-23-2003 at 07:09 AM

HELL NO WE WON'T BATHE!!!!
HELL NO WE WON'T BATHE!!!!
HELL NO WE WON'T BATHE!!!!

just seeing the pix of those hippy scumbags from the 60's/70's makes me ill. no wonder nixon wanted to have them shot. i'm certainly no flag waver but i do support our troops and iraq is a totally differant situation than vietnam.

either way, it's NOT the fault of our men and women fighting for the u.s, the brits, and the aussies. as i said in a previous post if i didn't have a company to run and wasn't quite busy working trying to keep my kid fed and a roof over our heads, i would have been downtown fuuucking those people up in anyway possible! it makes me sick to see such a disrespect of our people in the military.

i'd still love to know where all these wonderfully informed "humanitarian" protesters were when saddam and "chemical ali" his side kick gassed the kurds! funny how nobody protests till the u.s gets involved in anything.

wheres all the protesters to protest things that CAN be changed?

clearly these "protesters" are not well informed nor do they care about the men and women sacrificing themselves for the freedom of the iraqi people, and lets face it after saddam is toast they will be much better off, collateral damage or not.

scream blood for oil all ya want, fact is iraq doesn't produce that much oil. maybe they will in the future but if thats the case the people will be the ones benifiting and not saddam(7 billion in personal assets!!). tell me saddam hasn't raped and pilaged his people and i will tell you the sky is plaid and not blue.

1991, after the withdrawl of the u.s forces an uprising of the people of basra against saddam is crushed by the republican guard. 250,000 to 300,000 lost their lives fighting to be free of their"leader" saddam hussein.

gimme a break already. :mad:

:moon::flame:

HELLO

doggiestar - 3-23-2003 at 11:01 AM

ESSEX BOYS IN DA HOUSE!!!

sorry...American i am not

suporter of War...I am not

stupid...well...sometimes when it suits

concerned at recent comments by leading government officials that Iraq is just the start...Iran and Syria could be next...along with Jordan and all the other Gulf states...we are going down the age old path to WW 3...

thats one completely different worst case senario (sp?) than we currently envasige...

here we are not just talking about land and oil...it's gonna be viewed as a war on the muslim world...therefore a religious war...and that would seriously become dangerous to all of us very quickly!

suport for the troops...yeah...get this done...and done fast...but wait a goddam minute here...who decides when it stops?

BlackHeaven - 3-23-2003 at 12:33 PM

See me? .. BlackHeaven? ... I couldnt give a shit!:P

gabewave - 3-23-2003 at 02:05 PM

http://www.msnbc.com/news/889604.asp?0sl=-21

It seems that things are beginning to get costly for our troops. I bet these guys weren't being welcomed.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
Support our troops, not the men who put them there.

gabewave - 3-23-2003 at 02:07 PM

http://www.msnbc.com/news/889462.asp?0cv=CB10

Not even safe from our own people. It seems the anger is starting to come to the for front.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
Support our troops, not the men who put them there.

iana - 3-23-2003 at 04:21 PM

First, I'd like to apologize to you Iana, I was really only speaking metaphorically and didn't mean to imply that you are a "Ho" but rather a proverbial "Media Ho". I was only trying to be slightly ironic and witty and convey what I thought was a funny image. I am sorry and didn't intend to offend.....

Apology accepted and I apologize as well,I consider you extremely intellegent and well informed not a jackass like I posted ,I was just angry,I know what you we're saying(media ho) I also know American Propaganda does exist,I don't believe that everything I hear and see on the news ia "all" propaganda,I will go over your post later and go to those links and study them,at the moment I have a couple of dogs to deliver to a new home in Long Island,peace.

Thank you for the apology.

Sidewinder 42 - 3-23-2003 at 07:55 PM

Boer War............. WWI............. WWII............. Korea............... Vietnam................ Gulf War (1)................ Gulf War (2)............. so much for "never again"
.
..
...
....
.....
WWIII?

Libertine - 3-23-2003 at 09:02 PM

I think everyone knows my view on the war so I'll put a locking cover on my keyboard for this topic.

Libertine - 3-23-2003 at 09:03 PM

Does a quickie Rodney Dangerfield impression before leaving though.
*adjusts tie*
No respect, no respect

romi - 3-24-2003 at 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
what you really need to see is that Saddam is the real mother fucker,a threat to America and the world,your country included,I hope the future proves your anger wrong when you see a liberated Iraq,thanks to Bush and Blair,Saddam needs to die,end of story.

You are not teach me nothing new. I know that Saddam is a real mother fucker, i don't need you to tell me that. But do you think that is necessary to have so much people kill, and i'm talking about iraqi people and american and english soldiers, to get the hands on Saddam??? Bullshit. He is probably far away laughing about it.
I don't know why America was so piss off when talibans have destroyed the ancient Budas, because America is doing the same shit, destroying one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Does Bush knows if iraqi people wants to have americans and english taking control of their country??? Of course they don't want that.
Is not Bush, neither Blair that have sons or daughters, that can die in this stupid war.They don't give a shit about them. You must pray (instead of being at the your president side) for the soldiers that are dying.

iana - 3-24-2003 at 04:08 AM

I am not a religious person,I do not pray,you are worried about friends that you have over there that "might " get killed? what about my friends that DID FUCKING GET KILLED ON 9/11? they're all terrorist and for the last time, yap all you want nothing is going to change war is on and the bastard Americans are in charge,I DON"T WANT THIS WAR EITHER but it's here and while it is you can bet your ass i'm behind my fucking President!

Soldier Blue - 3-24-2003 at 04:56 AM

Iraq Displays Dead and Captured U.S. Soldiers

By Hassan Hafidh

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq (news - web sites) displayed on Sunday five shaken U.S. soldiers apparently captured in a battle near the southern city of Nassiriya and some bloodied bodies, in what U.S. officials called a violation of the Geneva Convention.

Iraqi television filmed the bodies and prisoners, saying they fell into Iraqi hands during a battle at the town of Souq al-Shuyukh, southeast of Nassiriya where U.S. forces have encountered stiff resistance.

The video showed two rooms each containing what appeared to be two separate groups of four bodies in uniform, at least two with wounds to the head and some lying in pools of blood.

The film then showed interviews with five separate captured soldiers, two of whom appeared to be injured -- one a woman, the other a man lying on a rug on the floor.

They were the first U.S. prisoners known to have been taken by Iraq since U.S.-led forces invaded four days ago to overthrow President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). The prisoners gave their names and home towns and one provided his military identification number.

Lt. Gen. John Abizaid, second in command of the U.S. invasion force, later said 12 U.S. soldiers were missing.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the video was a violation of the Geneva Convention but added that the capture of Americans would not alter U.S. war plans, saying display of such footage was "obviously part of Iraqi propaganda."

RED CROSS CONCERNED

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) agreed the footage violated the convention, which says that prisoners of war must be protected "against insult and public curiosity," and said it would seek permission to visit the captives.

Television footage of Iraqis surrendering to U.S. and British forces, and still photographs of Iraqi prisoners, some showing the captives in humiliating positions, won wide play in the U.S. media on Sunday.

Iraqi Defense Minister Sultan Hashim Ahmed said Iraq would respect the Geneva Convention in its treatment of prisoners.

"Iraq will not harm the captured prisoners of war," he said.

The bodies, mostly still fully clothed but some with their shirts pulled up, were shown strewn on the floor in pools of blood. In the first room, at least two had wounds to the head and another had a groin wound. In another room, a smiling Iraqi uncovered more bodies, some with blackened faces.

The first prisoner shown, a nervous soldier in glasses, gave his name as Miller and said he was from Kansas.

Asked why he had come to Iraq he replied: "Because I was told to come here. I was just under orders. I was told to shoot -- only if I'm shot at. I don't want to kill anybody."

Speaking on condition of anonymity, a U.S. defense official said the missing U.S. personnel were probably members of a maintenance unit that was operating in southern Iraq.

Two of the prisoners shown by Iraqi television said they were from the 507th Maintenance Company.

The 507th Corps Support Group provides supplies, equipment, repairs and maintenance and would usually provide support as far forward as possible to the 82nd Airborne Division, the 3rd Infantry Division and the 101st Airborne Division.

U.S. officers said Marines battling Iraqi guerrillas for Nassiriya, on the Euphrates river about 375 km (225 miles) southeast of Baghdad, had taken "significant" casualties in a fight to open a route north to the Iraqi capital.

GUNS OR FLOWERS?

The second prisoner shown, who gave his name as Joseph Hudson, said he came from El Paso, Texas.

Asked why he had come to Iraq, he said: "I follow orders."

He was asked repeatedly whether he was greeted by guns or flowers by Iraqis, but appeared not to understand the question.

A third man who appeared to have a broken arm, was lying on a red patterned rug, but was pulled into a sitting position to answer questions. He gave his name as Edgar from Texas and said only that he had entered Iraq from Kuwait.

A fourth prisoner gave his name as Sgt. James Riley from New Jersey and said he was 31 years old. He appeared to be in shock, turning his head from side to side.

The fifth, a woman who gave her name as Shawna, said she was 30 and had a bandaged ankle.

Appearing on CBS television, Rumsfeld was shown the footage, which was relayed around the world by the Arabic network Al-Jazeera, and said it violated the Geneva Convention, which he said prohibited the photographing or interrogation by media of those captured in battle.

Rumsfeld later criticized networks for airing such footage.

Noting that the United States now had in custody more than 2,000 Iraqis, he called on Baghdad to abide by international law and treat U.S. captives "just as we treat Iraqi prisoners according to the Geneva Convention."

[Edited on 3-24-2003 by Soldier Blue]

Soldier Blue - 3-24-2003 at 06:25 AM

DEHUMANISING" FOOTAGE

Reuters.com

Some Arab citizens said the footage of POWs, dead soldiers and the blow-by-blow TV war coverage made the conflict seem like a tasteless movie which belittled the human suffering.

"Showing these images is the same mistake on both sides. This is a war in which nobody is respecting their own values and nobody wins. It is sick. Both sides are breaking the Geneva Convention," one Arab official said.

"Seeing all this on TV is dehumanizing. It's as though it were yet another Hollywood production," an Arab academic said. "It's a bad movie by a bad director," said one Egyptian man.

Badr, a Saudi government employee, said: "It's become a media war, a psychological war. You don't know whom to believe."

One Arab translator said Iraqi TV had damaged Arabs by showing the footage of dead and wounded U.S. soldiers, saying "it feeds into stereotypes that Arabs are barbaric."

An Arab official feared the Iraqi television pictures would also harm the image of Islam, which he said "has high respect for human beings, and for those who are dying or dead."

Usama al-Kurdi, a member of Saudi Arabia's state-appointed Shura Council, called the Iraqi footage "another indication of the kind of regime it is. Showing bodies on TV is not acceptable." While no fan of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, Saudi Arabia has said it is opposed to the war.

ANTI-WAR SENTIMENT RISING

Whether or not they agree on the ethics of the media coverage, most Arabs and regional newspapers say each passing day cements their opposition to the U.S.-led invasion.

"The pictures of dead Arab children with only the front of their heads still in place and the images of dead American soldiers strewn on the ground are equally tragic, because they were equally avoidable," Lebanon's Daily Star wrote in a front-page editorial.

Many say they are fed up with what they consider Washington's haughty approach and empty pledges about commitments to protect civilians.

"To talk about smart bombs while blood flows everywhere is a provocation against the victims, their families and the whole world," Saudi daily al-Jazira wrote in an editorial.

Samir Ragab, editor-in-chief of Egypt's al-Gomhuriya, said he was outraged that the United States "kills a nation's children and women and abandons their corpses for stray dogs."

He said in an editorial that Washington's pre-war claims about wanting to liberate Iraq from a tyrant rang hollow "while its killing machine is being turned on innocent civilians."

shitheads!

the wizard - 3-24-2003 at 06:31 AM

ok, one more time!

hussein loyalists = bad guys!

u.s,brit,aussie troops = good guys!

the geneva convention is out the fickin window as far as i'm concerned, does anyone know why they showed those dead soldiers with heads wounds?

anyone?

i'll tell you why, because they shot them! those mother fuuckers will pay and pay for that one, mark my words.

execution of p.o.w's will NOT go unpunished, i can only hope that when our troops get to faghdad they fuucking unload mass lead into those responible!

personally i don't care for this shit at all, but i know it's now or later, and by later i mean after saddam sell bio-weapons to some retard that decides he's gonna go see allah and take a shitload of americans or brits or whoever with him.

there are some VERY mis-guided people in this world, and at this point in time it's to late to try and change their minds with anything other than a bullet!

we have the support of 46 countries at last check, your either with us or against us at this point. :mad:

[Edited on 3-24-2003 by the wizard]

france.jpg - 32kB

moya - 3-24-2003 at 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertine
I think everyone knows my view on the war so I'll put a locking cover on my keyboard for this topic.

i agree..... it's no secret what i think of this war but i have decided to "lock my keyboard" on this subject too 'cause i think what's happening is enough. there's no need to insult each other on this board.

and wizard the world is a bit more complicated than "with us or against us"

romi - 3-24-2003 at 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
you are worried about friends that you have over there that "might " get killed?

You said that you are older then some of us. But i think that intelectually you are very young. I'm not only worried about my friends. I'm worried about this world. What can happen after this war. And just for your information, and to end this subject, i must inform you that my uncle, my father's brother, is in this war. He is fighting for your arrogant empire and if he dies, i don't think Bush is gonna cry for that death, or start to have nightmares about this. He will not give a shit about it. But you can't see that.

iana - 3-24-2003 at 12:47 PM

For your information I have enough friends in this war,I don't need to know about your uncle,I care about the people on both sides,Iraqi's and Americans and as far as being young intellectually I will go head to head with you any day of the week,you don't know me,you know nothing about me except from what you read on this board,you are arrogant,you are the one people don't like because of your ramblings about this war,like I said before the war is here no matter what you or I feel about it,we have no control over and as long as my friends and fellow Americans are over there,I will support them.
This is why I stay away from these topics,some things people will never agree on and this war is certainly one of them, I like you Romi,no disrespect to you or your Uncle ,I do hope he stays safe,but I will not respond again to this topic after this post.

To Moya- I usually am not like this and I never strike first at a person,place or thing,i'm a peaceful person at heart,i'm sorry if I offend you in any way,I have immense respect for you.

One last thing,my heart goes out to any POW,MIA,or KIA but these men and women know what ther're getting into when they sign up for the military,especially now, alot of young people from my neighborhood signed up after 9/11 and might even go over ? anyway i'm done.

moya - 3-24-2003 at 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana

To Moya- I usually am not like this and I never strike first at a person,place or thing,i'm a peaceful person at heart,i'm sorry if I offend you in any way,I have immense respect for you.

i know that Debi, the respect is mutual you know that...

yeah

the wizard - 3-24-2003 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moya

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertine
I think everyone knows my view on the war so I'll put a locking cover on my keyboard for this topic.

i know the world is more complicated, much more so than most people. there are things at play that most people can't or won't see, for example the republican guard has been issued orders to use chemical and/or biological weapons if our troops get within a certain distance of baghdad.

now isn't that special?!?!

so much for "oh yeah we got rid of all those nasty things"(saddam). you see we as citizens are not privy to the info that our governments are, perhaps if we were let in on the dirty little secrets then more people would understand the need to nip this saddam in the bud. to bad bush sr. didn't get the job done the first time around. if i thought there was a chance i could get over there in time to do my part, i would sign up in a minute. although i am too old by military standards to join, and i have authority issues as well as i'm not cutting my hair.

moya, i'm not the bad guy, i just get very upset with all the bitching ill informed people do, we ALL should support our troops and send them all our love and prayers(no matter who ya pray to)!

romi, instead of whining, do something about it if your that passionate. this is what i'm talking about, to much bitching not enough action, and by action i don't mean going out and protesting the war. that is just plain evil and retarded at this point. i mean go and donate to the red cross for the relief effort as i'm going to do. the people in iraq will need LOTS of help to recover from 27 years of brutality that saddam has inflicted on them. just do a quick search and find the red cross website, send what you can!

romi - 3-25-2003 at 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by the wizard

romi, instead of whining, do something about it ... i mean go and donate to the red cross for the relief effort as i'm going to do. the people in iraq will need LOTS of help to recover from 27 years of brutality that saddam has inflicted on them. just do a quick search and find the red cross website, send what you can!

Most of you americans thinks that have all the reason and can teach the world how to act.You don't know shit about me, so don't even try to say what i shoul or shouldn't do. I'm not in Iraq, but i'm trying to help iraqi people from red cross in Portugal. Unfortunately i can't go to Iraq, because i have a job that i can't quit. But if you want some information about red cross i can give to you. Just ask for it. But i'm not doing this because i'm from Saddam side.I would do that if the problem was in other country.
And what the fuck are you doing to help the people? Maybe nothing, like most of the americans do.

romi - 3-25-2003 at 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
you are arrogant,you are the one people don't like because of your ramblings about this war

"Thank you" for saying that i'm arrogant. "Thank you" for saying that people don't like me.

Sorry if i piss you off. A war in Iraq is enough, let's not starting our war in here.

Kisses from an arrogant person.

iana - 3-25-2003 at 03:38 AM

You are the one who comes to a message board and insults the Country of the majority of the people on the board,maybe other people would tolerate it ,I will not,sometimes Romi we need to keep our opinions to ourself,I would never go to a message board and insult other peoples country, you don't like America,don't come here,don't buy our products and so on we don't need you to like us,you talk about "NO RESPECT" you should respect the fact that when insult America ,you insult alot of people here as well. I don't dislike you,I understand your anger ,I just wish you would stop the bashing of my country on this board.

romi - 3-25-2003 at 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
you don't like America,don't come here,don't buy our products and so on we don't need you to like us

I don't say that i don't like America. I don't live American politics. I come to this site everytime i want to. I come here because i like The Cult, i don't come here for your pretty eyes or because most of people is american. I come here because, believe it or not, i have friends (and good ones) in this site. I'm trying not to buy your products, like you are doing to the french. I like you all. Is you that are saying that i don't like. One more time you are talking like your president. You decide what people should or shouldn't like. The world don't work like that."Or you are with us or with the terrorists" don't work for me. If you don't like me here, don't answer to my posts.

iana - 3-25-2003 at 06:05 AM

Romi,you make it real hard to be nice to you,again if you read my posts carefully,you'll see I said I don't dislike you,I do,I respect your opinion on this war as you should respect mine,I try not to be "malicious" in my posts or offend a large party of people, from now on I will not bother to think about what you say because like my opinion who really cares what we think and I never said not to come to this board,who the fuck am I to say so,we come here for the Cult,I shall stay in "CULT RELATED" topics,well try to anyway, my pretty eyes have 10/20 vision,I am far from blind,I don't like war,I am against America being in Iraq but we are there,so like alot of Americans,I will support our troops and hope we leave there quickly,we all cannot be right in our assement of this war,we all have our opinions and again I respect yours I wish you would do the same.There ain't no reason we can't discuss this topic maturely like adults without the use of foul language and name calling,I apologize truely if I insulted you,my anger gets the best of me,I do hope your uncle is okay as well as my 14 friends and neighbors,If you would like to discuss this lets do it calmly,if not I respect that as well,peace to you.

Sidewinder 42 - 3-25-2003 at 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
my pretty eyes have 10/20 vision,I am far from blind

Well, my eyes have "better than 20/20 vision" and all I see here is a few people, with vastly differing opinions, shouting at brick walls.
Opinions are like assholes: Everyone's got one, most of them stink to other people and nobody wants to hear 'em.
Perhaps we should agree to disagree, because it is already apparent (or should be) that no amount of back and forth is going to change the other(s)' stance on this. All it is doing is running up tempers and webspace.
Personally, I hear/see enough about this war, from opinions to eyewitness accounts thru the media already.
This board is where I come to talk (in a fashion) to people and get some form of relaxation. So can we keep the Iraq talk to a minimum? If you wish to continue it, try emailing, or using a chat program like MSN or Yahoo or one of the many others out there.
For my sanity and that of others, please stop it.

iana - 3-25-2003 at 06:21 AM

Andrew,you say this after your long post on the other thread?
I don't come here to fight with people this is my only salvation from the shit I deal with everyday,(fear of terrorists,animal rescue,family and $$ problems) I come here for info and to talk with friends and alot of times a good laugh,I said as well war talk should not be done here,freedom of speech? hell yeah but keep it civil. 10/20 vision is better then 20/20 innit?

Sidewinder 42 - 3-25-2003 at 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iana
Andrew,you say this after your long post on the other thread?
I don't come here to fight with people this is my only salvation from the shit I deal with everyday,(fear of terrorists,animal rescue,family and $$ problems) I come here for info and to talk with friends and alot of times a good laugh,I said as well war talk should not be done here,freedom of speech? hell yeah but keep it civil. 10/20 vision is better then 20/20 innit?

I posted that as an ironic example, it is yet another opinion of the thousands floating around.

Oh, and "better than 20/20" means beyond the test's ability to detect a fault :o